Comments on: Hi, I’m Cathy http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/ Developing Interfaces with Cocoa Fri, 05 Sep 2008 19:46:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Tim Buchheim http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-152 Tim Buchheim Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:41:09 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-152 I love your blog, Cathy. It's good to have someone pointing out the flaws in AppKit. We all know that they're there, but over time they get so ingrained in one's way of doing things that people end up defending poor choices that NeXT or Apple made years ago rather than thinking about what can be done to fix things. So it's quite refreshing to see thoughtful analysis of what's wrong in Cocoa and useful ideas on how to go about fixing them. I love your blog, Cathy.

It’s good to have someone pointing out the flaws in AppKit. We all know that they’re there, but over time they get so ingrained in one’s way of doing things that people end up defending poor choices that NeXT or Apple made years ago rather than thinking about what can be done to fix things.

So it’s quite refreshing to see thoughtful analysis of what’s wrong in Cocoa and useful ideas on how to go about fixing them.

]]> By: Scott Stevenson http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-127 Scott Stevenson Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:02:00 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-127 @John: I think you may have missed my point. The momentum of custom views is not about the stock controls not being "good enough," but that many apps want to have their own identity. For example, I don't think it makes sense for Apple to generalize the type of views used by Delicious Library or Front Row. In some cases, generalization does make sense, which is why IKImageBrowserView showed up to serve iPhoto-like needs. But IKImageBrowserView is also an excellent example of why customization isn't completely simple. The view is not just a bunch of static bitmaps -- there are animations, behaviors, and so on. All of this could be customized via API in theory, but somebody would have to figure out a way it could be useful across a wide range of cases. Understand I'm not arguing against Cathy's idea. I think it makes a lot of sense. But for it to be implemented there would have to be some feedback filed, preferably with specific examples. @John: I think you may have missed my point. The momentum of custom views is not about the stock controls not being “good enough,” but that many apps want to have their own identity. For example, I don’t think it makes sense for Apple to generalize the type of views used by Delicious Library or Front Row.

In some cases, generalization does make sense, which is why IKImageBrowserView showed up to serve iPhoto-like needs. But IKImageBrowserView is also an excellent example of why customization isn’t completely simple. The view is not just a bunch of static bitmaps — there are animations, behaviors, and so on. All of this could be customized via API in theory, but somebody would have to figure out a way it could be useful across a wide range of cases.

Understand I’m not arguing against Cathy’s idea. I think it makes a lot of sense. But for it to be implemented there would have to be some feedback filed, preferably with specific examples.

]]> By: John http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-126 John Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:41:33 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-126 "...and I think maybe the reason the view layout system doesn’t come up as a major obstacle is many apps use custom composite views now, where as almost all apps in the past used combinations of stock views and controls." In other words: existing developers have written their own implementation of almost all view classes, because the stock ones were not good enough functionally or artistically. Good for them. But, what about the barrier of entry? What about new developers. 1. learn cocoa 2. rewrite all UI components. 7. after a long while, get back to your idea. I would vote for Apple to include ProKit in standard sdk. They could still style their own apps differently to distinguish themselves, but the functionality would be there for other developers. “…and I think maybe the reason the view layout system doesn’t come up as a major obstacle is many apps use custom composite views now, where as almost all apps in the past used combinations of stock views and controls.”

In other words: existing developers have written their own implementation of almost all view classes, because the stock ones were not good enough functionally or artistically. Good for them. But, what about the barrier of entry? What about new developers. 1. learn cocoa 2. rewrite all UI components. 7. after a long while, get back to your idea.

I would vote for Apple to include ProKit in standard sdk. They could still style their own apps differently to distinguish themselves, but the functionality would be there for other developers.

]]> By: Lee http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-120 Lee Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:16:21 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-120 hehe! it works as long as you don't bob your head or snore! hehe! it works as long as you don’t bob your head or snore!

]]> By: Cathy http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-118 Cathy Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:08:45 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-118 Lee, yeah I miss that!! I was just telling Dirk yesterday about the 'one hand on the mouse and one hand on the keyboard' maneuver you taught me ;) Lee, yeah I miss that!! I was just telling Dirk yesterday about the ‘one hand on the mouse and one hand on the keyboard’ maneuver you taught me ;)

]]> By: Lee http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-117 Lee Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:01:00 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-117 You are usually well spoken and are not quick to say something that you regret and I think this is another case of that. You didn't say anything negative. Oh, and I too love your blog! It's like sitting in the same office with you again! ;-) You are usually well spoken and are not quick to say something that you regret and I think this is another case of that. You didn’t say anything negative.

Oh, and I too love your blog! It’s like sitting in the same office with you again! ;-)

]]> By: Cathy http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-115 Cathy Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:26:20 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-115 jcr - I think Andy Lee hit it right on the head. I was probably feeling much more bitchy than I let on in my words and felt guilt about that. Either way, the list is going to be avalanched with beginner's questions with all the new interest in Cocoa and its important to me to be helpful. The list is how I learned - I think it's the best Cocoa recourse out there. :) jcr - I think Andy Lee hit it right on the head. I was probably feeling much more bitchy than I let on in my words and felt guilt about that.

Either way, the list is going to be avalanched with beginner’s questions with all the new interest in Cocoa and its important to me to be helpful. The list is how I learned - I think it’s the best Cocoa recourse out there. :)

]]> By: John C. Randolph http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-110 John C. Randolph Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:21:12 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-110 "I’m feeling absolutely terrible because I snapped at someone on the Cocoa-dev list today." Heh. I've bounced on a few heads in my time for messages that I thought were unduly hostile to newbies, and yours wouldn't even have registered as unfriendly. Speaking as a former Cocoa-dev moderator, I'd say listen to Scott Anguish. ;-) -jcr “I’m feeling absolutely terrible because I snapped at someone on the Cocoa-dev list today.”

Heh.

I’ve bounced on a few heads in my time for messages that I thought were unduly hostile to newbies, and yours wouldn’t even have registered as unfriendly.

Speaking as a former Cocoa-dev moderator, I’d say listen to Scott Anguish. ;-)

-jcr

]]> By: Paul Robinson http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-101 Paul Robinson Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:45:58 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-101 Actually your response was very gentle, even more so when compared to some of the more scorching replies that sometimes send new posters running for cover! Probably you are one of these extra, extra nice people who rarely even feel snippy, much less express it. This is a great blog and you have a great writing style. Please keep the posts coming. Actually your response was very gentle, even more so when compared to some of the more scorching replies that sometimes send new posters running for cover!

Probably you are one of these extra, extra nice people who rarely even feel snippy, much less express it.

This is a great blog and you have a great writing style. Please keep the posts coming.

]]> By: Cathy http://katidev.com/blog/2008/03/23/hi-im-cathy/#comment-99 Cathy Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:55:24 +0000 http://katidev.com/blog/?p=87#comment-99 Andy and Scott A: You're both probably right about the post. Guess I'm pretty senstive...haha. Jean-Michel: There's no bad way that I could take that. Thanks : ) Jeff: I know, it is exciting! Welcome to the parade!! Andy and Scott A:

You’re both probably right about the post. Guess I’m pretty senstive…haha.

Jean-Michel:

There’s no bad way that I could take that. Thanks : )

Jeff:

I know, it is exciting! Welcome to the parade!!

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